- Joined
- Jan 20, 2014
- Messages
- 156
- Reaction score
- 158
You've got a point about not matching. It's not like a weak applicant from a T10 can go to a community ortho program and expect them to fawn over their pedigree. It's very possible for a T10 applicant to fail to match if they get passed over by other prestigious programs. This is especially true in specialties that prioritize aways (e.g., ortho, plastics, etc...). I've heard community PDs say they tend to avoid ivory tower students because they've had experiences with them coming in with a chip on their shoulder. I'm not saying this has real merit, but the advantage of a T10 pedigree definitely falls off once you're out of the academic residencies.This also happens at T20s.... about 40% of my t20 school goes unmatched for ortho at any program...
What are u on about? This ortho app cycle literally proves it doesn't make a difference at all. Maybe a little, but when u consider that T20 students are usually more active among online forums, know the criteria of a strong app, etc it basically normalizes any 'advantage' due to their med school pedigree.
I don't think this "proves" anything though. The matches at T10s and T20s are significantly more prestigious than those elsewhere, and more students feel competitive enough to apply.
Why would I, a T20 student, be "frothing at the mouth to sht on T20 students"?Ppl just froth at the mouth to sht on T20 students at any opportunity
Anecdotally, I've seen a lot of students make changes s/p step 1 who likely could have matched if they were open to any academic residency. This is especially true in MD/PhD, where the research environment is paramount to your success (and it's perfectly logical to prioritize that). I've definitely also seen this in MD-only friends, who subsequently did a lot of fretting about interviews, consistently prioritized program prestige, and matched T20 in their new specialty.What brings u to this conclusion? Are u talking to every single person at ur school who was interested in ortho but switched to FM to match a T10 program and interrogating them on their motivations for switching? A lot of ppl don't even say what they're really interested in... Not saying that some people at t20s don't care about prestige more than avg, but the fact that ur speaking in absolutes about something so transient is utterly fanciful.
Humans all take some preemptive action to avoid rejection (this is true for a lot more than just residency apps). For students at a mid-tier school, this means avoiding a risk of going unmatched. For students at top tier schools, this often means avoiding a risk of matching somewhere outside of the recognized top tier programs. At top tier schools, many students' career goals don't stop at landing a competitive residency. They care equally about the specialty itself and their career trajectory. Again, many would rather be So-and-So MD, Chief of Department, Interventional Cardiology vs. an average urologist. The post above stating that a T10 advisor talks poorly about lower tier programs also rings fairly true. At my home hospital, I've seen tons of attendings poo-poo lower-ranked programs. Going outside of the name-brand places is sometimes regarded as "falling off" in the eyes of these attendings. This is yet another factor pushing students towards name-brand residencies.
No I'm an 8th year (M4) in an MD/PhD program. I've seen a lot of match cycles. Internally, they've showed us match rates and they've traditionally been fantastic, but it's true not everyone matches. My "boots on the ground" observation is that most who don't match in competitive specialties fall into one of two buckets.Are u a 1st year? Bc ur perspective seems like u are; otherwise, u would know everyone who applied into these fields and realize that the match rate isn't great, even at T20s. Hell, we even had ppl not match GS and our GS program is supposedly among the best...
A) Not truly competitive enough for the specialty, but hoping school name/connections get them in. Their letters can't overcome lack of research and low scores, and community programs don't bite because they're not focused on prestige.
B) Highly competitive on paper, but not great in person. I've seen a few of these in surgical subs. They have amazing scores and publications, but do 4-5 aways and likely get DNR'd for their personality. Lower tier programs assume they have no interest. Top-tier programs don't rank them.
My advisor told me he can usually see it coming. It's hard to discourage the group A because there's still a chance they'll match, and why take that away from them? It's hard to discourage group B, because it's hard to tell someone to their face that they have an attitude problem, a personality disorder, or a social deficit.