A question about large dental school debt from an outsider.

[deleted903013]

It's scary how many pre-dents I knew + current dental students that refuse to critically think about their debt.

Pre dents are too worried about getting accepted rather than thinking about the implications of dental school debt.

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[Teeth and Titanite]

Pre dents are too worried about getting accepted rather than thinking about the implications of dental school debt.

Right, and I wish it weren't so. It's super tough to turn down an acceptance, especially when a bio degree leaves you with few other options. Students at least need to blacklist the expensive private schools

 

[sharkdent]

Before I start let me throw a disclaimer so no one's time is wasted. I’m someone who was dead set on med school and this past year I have explored two other healthcare careers and ended up deciding not to peruse either.

Enter dentistry. I’m not too familiar with general dentistry. I never gave it a chance. I started watching general dental procedures on YouTube. I quickly realized, ****, this isn’t all cosmetics, it’s all microsurgery. Cool!

So I will be shadowing general dentistry next week regardless of the answers provided below. Now for my questions.

I can’t go to public dental school since I live in Florida and UF is a tough school to get into. And that’s all we have.

So I look and realize that it’ll be about 520k of debt which should include interest and my undergrad debt.

How in gods name are people getting around this? I’m by no means looking at healthcare because of money, but holy smokes I don’t want to be living almost paycheck to paycheck. I grew up like that. And I don’t want that for my future family.

I hear the public options and even the military are very competitive as well to acquire for repayment help.

I have tried to understand on my own how people deal with the 550k debt. And I just don’t get it. This looks...dangerous? Are all of these people doing the military or some government-sponsored program? Are they going to corporate dentistry and getting incentive payment to their debts for a time commitment to the company?

I guess what I’m asking is, is there something here that I’m not seeing? Or is the situation really that bad?
So, should I even bother looking at dentistry seriously?


Again I apologize for having to say that, and I apologize for having to come off so arrogant but I’m struggling to see what people do who are forced to go OOS or private.

I'm a dentist 18 years out. I've been coming here trying warn pre-dental student to not go into dentistry. It's very dangerous. Dental Insurance company has a stranglehold on dental salary. Dental schools are killing kids financially. Debt is way too high for what we make. States are passing laws to allow dental therapist to practice general dentistry. It is not a good time to get into dentisty.

 

[sharkdent]

Lol you can't blame students for the high cost of dental school. THe government really literally is the cause of the absurdly high costs. Students have the choice whether or not they go, but the government is the 100% the reason why the costs are so high.

Public school, maybe. But private schools are setting their price of tuition to what ever they want. Government has no power over what private school charges. Maybe public school. But, public school can't have a big discrepancy from private school knowing that if that is the going rate, public school also wants to get as much as they can.

 

[New_Vegas]

Government has no power over what private school charges.

Yes they do. Government will give a student 100% funding for all of their tuition costs, and costs of living with no questions asked. This gives private schools (and all schools) a blank check to charge whatever they want. If the government capped lending at 50k a year for tuition and living costs, I bet most of these schools wouldn't exist.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Yes they do. Government will give a student 100% funding for all of their tuition costs, and costs of living with no questions asked. This gives private schools (and all schools) a blank check to charge whatever they want. If the government capped lending at 50k a year for tuition and living costs, I bet most of these schools wouldn't exist.

It’s called the “Bennett Hypothesis.” However, at this point, I think we can all agree it’s moved beyond a mere hypothesis.

The Bennett Hypothesis Confirmed -- Again

Richard Vedder points out that The Bennett Hypothesis is shown to be right once again.

www.forbes.com

Big Hoss

 

[HowToTeeth101]

To make this less abstract, I'm sharing with you an IDR simulation completed for a recent grad with $583K student loan debt. Here's an overview of the various repayment plans:

View attachment 344386

Then, the PAYE repayment schedule which includes negative amortization:

View attachment 344387

In this simulation, I assume a 40% effective tax rate on any debt cancellation (this sim = $1,066,055). Given the assumptions, including a $1,246/month "tax bomb" investment w/5% rate of return, the effective interest of the student loan is -0.17%.

In response to another comment, IDR borrowers are able to secure other financing. An Endo client and her spouse recently secured $1.5m mortgage having ~ $800k student debt in PAYE. Lender was not selling to Freddie or Fae Mae that made it possible.

I am still in the process of trying to understand how to attack debt upon graduation (I'm not in dental school yet). I'm assuming the payments listed above in PAYE are if you make the minimum monthly payments. But hypothetically, wouldn't you be able to get out of debt alot sooner if you lived on 50k/year despite making ~120k a year pre-tax (which is still like 80k post-tax). You'd save more money and the tax bomb wouldn't be as steep if you got out of debt within 7-10 years, no? Also, can you please link/tell me where to find this table? This is helpful.

 

[deleted903013]

If the government capped lending at 50k a year for tuition and living costs, I bet most of these schools wouldn't exist.

Yep, and if these dental schools weren't able to lower their costs they should close. Nobody should have to leave dental school with more than 200k in debt.

 

[Rumple]

Yep, and if these dental schools weren't able to lower their costs they should close. Nobody should have to leave dental school with more than 200k in debt.

Sad reality is that kids are graduating with well over 650k in debt. Specialty programs with tuition or going to force a lot of students over the 1 mill threshold.

 

[PerioDont]

Sad reality is that kids are graduating with well over 650k in debt. Specialty programs with tuition or going to force a lot of students over the 1 mill threshold.

I personally know people in the 1 mill range.

Absolutely insane, there is no situation where that is worth it.

 

[SigmaFS]

You'd save more money and the tax bomb wouldn't be as steep if you got out of debt within 7-10 years, no?

Well, a 7-year repayment term at 6.5% on $583k will be $8610/month (after tax dollars). Pre-tax dollars at a 30% effective tax rate (to include federal & state income tax, and social security & medicare tax) would result in your first $12,300 of gross monthly income be committed to your student loan payment.

What some don't seem to appreciate is the right two columns of the Cost Analysis table - Effective Interest Rate & NPV (Net Present Value) of Loan in 2021 Dollars.

I suggest this site to run repayment simulations: Student Debt Center - VIN

 

[CloudBoi]

It's just such a buzzkill. The dentist was so happy to have someone in this rural community I live in take an interest. He was really bummed out that I told him I literally cannot do it because I don't have any way of getting through dental school without going to 660k of debt with no possible way of paying that off reasonably/realistically. But he was really understanding.

 

[Teeth and Titanite]

It's just such a buzzkill. The dentist was so happy to have someone in this rural community I live in take an interest. He was really bummed out that I told him I literally cannot do it because I don't have any way of getting through dental school without going to 660k of debt with no possible way of paying that off reasonably/realistically. But he was really understanding.

I didn't come across this thread until recently so I'm not entirely familiar with your backstory. Why were cheaper schools not in reach for you?

 

[CloudBoi]

I didn't come across this thread until recently so I'm not entirely familiar with your backstory. Why were cheaper schools not in reach for you?

I live in Florida and based on the ADEA guide I am indeed competitive for some dental schools but I am not competitive at all for UF, the only public dental school we have. I would have to attend OOS or private dental school.

 

[Teeth and Titanite]

I live in Florida and based on the ADEA guide I am indeed competitive for some dental schools but I am not competitive at all for UF, the only public dental school we have. I would have to attend OOS or private dental school.

I see. That is definitely a tough situation, my state also only has 1 public dental school so I know how that goes.

I see you're pre-podiatry now, also a great choice! From what I've seen on the pod forums on SDN, industrious podiatrists can absolutely make dentist money and then some. At the same time, the schooling is cheaper right? Probably more inline with what med school costs?

 

[CloudBoi]

I see. That is definitely a tough situation, my state also only has 1 public dental school so I know how that goes.

I see you're pre-podiatry now, also a great choice! From what I've seen on the pod forums on SDN, industrious podiatrists can absolutely make dentist money and then some. At the same time, the schooling is cheaper right? Probably more inline with what med school costs?

I have no idea how that label got there. I asked questions on that forum before but I never put that label there. I did 40 hours of podiatry shadowing and this was a while ago and it wasn't for me at all.

 

[Teeth and Titanite]

I have no idea how that label got there. I asked questions on that forum before but I never put that label there. I did 40 hours of podiatry shadowing and this was a while ago and it wasn't for me at all.

LOL that's pretty funny. Are you still considering a healthcare profession?

 

[Beauchemin13]

It's just such a buzzkill. The dentist was so happy to have someone in this rural community I live in take an interest. He was really bummed out that I told him I literally cannot do it because I don't have any way of getting through dental school without going to 660k of debt with no possible way of paying that off reasonably/realistically. But he was really understanding.

Just graduated from LECOM in florida with 380k In debt. Still a lot of debt, but way under 660k.

 

[CloudBoi]

LOL that's pretty funny. Are you still considering a healthcare profession?

At this point, it's hard to say. I'm very open-minded about it, dentistry is the fourth health profession I have considered. I rejected podiatry since it didn't look rewarding after 40 hours of shadowing. I decided to avoid dentistry since I'm fairly poor and I am already an older applicant (24) so it'll be hard for me to have a family and deal with that kind of debt in the future. Luckily this forum is filled with wonderful people that take time out of their day to warn people like myself.